Nastiest Drug !!!

more people die from allergic reactions to paracetamol each year than any who die from smarte consumption, but that doesnt make a good story so you wouldnt see it reported.

Bottom line is that unless there is some quality control you dont know what you are taking

However, whilst paracetamol cures your headaches I daresay mdma will mess with your head in later life if done too much.

Having said that a diet drug called sibutramine casues exactly the same brain changes as your fave dance malarkey and is fully legal in the US

I blame the germans who invented it!

YEAH YEAH!! BLAME ZE GERMANS!!!

I was answering your own question. You're fighting a losing battle Rossy. It is used for medical purposes, whether what people originally said about dentists is true or not.

Here's a bit more from the same article:

"Cocaine is the only local anaesthetic to block noradrenaline re-uptake at the presynaptic adrenergic receptors. This single agent provides anaesthesia and haemostasis, making the use of cocaine desirable in lacrimal drainage surgery. Its use in DCR surgery was first described by Dupuy-Dutemps and Bourgener in 1922. We have routinely used cocaine for our DCR surgery, and emphasise the need to remain cognisant of its possible local and systemic side effects."

Re: Nastiest Drug !!!

deff love...

can be great but can make people do a lot more worse things than any other drug i've seen...

There are about 1/2 million pills consumed in a week in the UK. There are about 20 deaths a year from E in the uk ( this is being VERY generous - 99 percent of these are due to heatstroke or hyponatremia, both of which are avoidable. In terms of pure MDMA deaths, the LD 50 is massive, like 40 pills concurrently.)


That makes about 1 death in 500 000 uses. That is absolutely tiny - AND those figures are generouse as HELL, AND most of those deaths could be avoided.

MDMA is a VERY safe drug, in terms of fatalities per unit use.

The 2 risks, in realilty, with taking E are impurity ( unlikely to kill but might cause nasty side effects ), and neurotoxicity. ALL the neurotox studies have used STUPID levels of MDMA to test hyphoteses - such as giving the equivalent of 20 pills every 6 hours for 4 days, in one Ricaurte survey (20 mg / kilo), and intravenously injecting, causing 3-4 times more neurotoxicity.

With regulated use, MDMA ( note i didnt say E ) is not going to cause problems. However, abuse can reach neurotoxic levels, although the damage is probalby reversible.

Harry

yes but the long term problems are a BIG issue not just death rates, Seritonin Depletion causes major depression in later life

That is why I compared restrained use of pills to binging on alcohol. Yes, binging on pills WILL fuck you up, a lot faster than the same on alcohol. Please read my post next time

Harry

There is NO evidence of long term serotonin depletion in humans at low recreational dose levels. Yes, caning pills hard and often WILL damage your 5-HT receptors and thus depress you. I have never denied this. I am arguing for RESTRAINED use of MDMA, not hard use, which is doubtlessly neurotoxic ( as is alcohol ).

Harry

Unfortunately no evidence does not mean that it doesn't cause any damage. People thought Thalidomide was safe too.

The point is, we don't know yet.

SPEED.

amen!

Fair dos,you are right - however, we now have about 20 years of data on rec E users, about 30 on medical MDMA users for psychotherapy, and 60 on the German test subjects from WW2 (soldiers given MDMA in the war - to enhance performance I think).

If the effects were pronounced, we would see them by now. They must be either very delayed, such that people from the early rave scene have not experienced them yet ( despite being 45-50 in some cases), or very subtle ( such that we just haven't noticed them).

I don't say that it is certainly safe - in this life, there is no certainty. However, I am saying that the evidence we do have, points rather strongly to there being no pronounced long term damage at low to medium use levels.

Harry

Edit - Speed is bad, the methylated form is worse - crystal meth / "ice", etc

Harry

I forgot to mention that ... SPEED melts your head ... no good for you. After heavy use it will also bring PETE out ...

statistic wise we were tlaking about peanuts... but I'll respond anyway.

First off you cant just quote figures without quoting references, a hardened messageboard flamer like yourself should know this

The latest British Crime Survey (which is the most realiable source) is showing a steady decrease in the consumption of MDMA; 312,000 16-24 year olds have tried ecstasy.... If you're stating 500,000 pills are consumed every week it doesnt add up

You're taking the drug out of context, how many people drop dead from instant alcohol poisoning? Very few, ratiowise I'd put money on it being less than pills. I'd estimate about 2/5 of the population drink at least one unit of alcohol a week thats 22,000,000.

Find me 70 people who die of alcohol on the spot please

However if your too look at the long term effects its impossible to compare the two as pills are not abused over long periods of time in the same manner as MDMA.

silly arguement.

Not sure why that doesn't add up. 312,000 16-24 year olds have tried ecstasy. That doesn't mean they have only tried it once. Add to that the number of people over 24 who take it, and weekly numbers could be huge. As far as I know 500,000 pills a week is a conservative estimate!

few gems in this thread...

personally speaking, post-speed is the most horrific experience ive ever had, obviously can't comment on the harder drugs, having never cared to indulge... although looking at the general state of some who use this board, i'll take your word for it

Speed comedown is the worst situation imaginable. Its fucking hell