how much money is enough?

Good idea, but it would have to be a global thing, as otherwise those at the top would just go and work in other countries where the salaries were higher.

well they could fuck off and we could give some others a go. british companies are all owned abroad now anyway so I don't suppose theres anything to be done about it but it has to stop sometime or we will all be working for chinese wages whilst the ones at the top trouser squillions

no. I'm just trying to point out that it is not a level playing field and not everybody has the chances that you and me have. So it's not the case that those who are poor 'deserve it' or for that matter those who are rich. The rich have a responsibility to help the poor. not rip them off to make themselves richer

At what point should a person not be allowed to make any more money than everyone else?

Is everything so polarised that your either on 5 quid an hour, or 8.5 million?

we should have a more progressive tax system it's not hard. Why should a millionaire pay the same VAT on something as a skint person?

What if you had a great idea and worked your arse off to build up a medium sized business ... you poured blood, sweat and absolute tears into it, just so you and your family could have a comfortabe future. Imagine your business grew and it got to the point where you could afford to take some staff on .... and the moment you employed them, they came in and whinged that you only pay them a tenner an hour ..... you might wonder why the hell you even bothered offering a job to anyone.

presumably he employs them in order to make an increased profit by exploiting their labour. If he didn't make some money off their backs he wouldn't employ them. Or do you imagine he employs people out of the goodness of his heart in order to give them the benefit of his lousy tenner?

Why do you think the rich get rich, and the poor get poor? Its human nature.

so is crime, but we legislate against that

Like i said, i dont believe in huge bonuses for companies that have a hand in things like former public services ..... but for people like bill gates - they deserve all the money they made.

and for people who clean the shit off your backside when you are sick in hospital? well fuck them cos they are too stupid to be out there sweating over their businesses and getting rich.

too much attention is being given to the extreme opposite ends of the scale here!

Where i work, there is a bloke who moans day in day out about everything. Always whining about the bosses car, house, holidays etc.

Perhaps if he was to actually have had a goal in life, other than sit on his fat arse and moan, perhaps he could have achieved something and be the one being moaned about?

People will always go on about the high earners, but i bet if they won the lottery they wouldn't make it a personal mission to give it all to society.

Yes some people can't help being thick, but the fact that some people shy away from the hard graft does not give them the right to complain about the people that didn't.

I love your arguments brid they always have an edge about them which makes me smile!

The minimum wage was an idea that would supposedly give everyone a chance at a bare minimum standard of living. What more can you do? ...... A Capitalistic society would not progress if it wasnt for greed and people wanting more, or doing things better. And to be brutally honest .... not everyone WANTS to be rich, in fact, most people are lazy and do the minimum it takes to have the minimum standard of life they expect or want..... whether or not they whine about it is their deal.

I have no argument with that but why not a maximum wage? is there not some point at which it becomes obscene? is it ok that some people starve to death for want of a crust whilst others feed their dogs on fillet steak?

Why do we need to pay more tax - is the 40% tax i pay on my earnings (or 50-60% realistically) not enough? Maybe not wasting money is the answer and not to pay people more money to do the same as they did before.

I didn't say pay more I said FAIRER taxes
and why is it ok to pay CEO's more to do the same as they did before?

Why should a private business OWE anyone anything. You make it sound like anyone who dares want more for themselves, instantly have responsibility for the rest of society. Corporate taxes are the means that the government takes some of the money the guy earns .... to hand back to the rest of society.

We all owe something to each other. We are human. And you might be riding high at the moment but you could fall through no fault of your own and would need someone to care for you. If they are all out looking out for number one then you're stuffed.
Corporate taxes are one thing that most businesses seem to avoid. Check out how much tax Rupert Murdoch paid last year.


Blame your government for squandering your money, increasing the cost of living, while not raising wages for nurses and the like ...... Why is that the fault of PRIVATE enterprise.

mostly the government does not squander your money. or at least not like PRIVATE companies. just two examples from the top of my head. USA private healthcare costs loads more than the NHS and only covers the rich. People die cos they can't afford treatment for christs sake. and the privatised rail companies ran the (publicly funded) network into the ground before the government had to re nationalise it. The only way that PRIVATE companies do things cheaper is by paying shit wages. I know the government does waste money (Iraq for instance) but there are loads of things that it is better for us, as a nation, to pool our resources to do. that's all taxes are in the end.

As soon as i had kids i realised what my career achieved would be nothing compared with what i could achieve bringing them up.

my job is an end to a means - i have more important things in life

Well said! I agree completely!

My parents never had much but always managed to provide a balanced, cultured upbringing with morals. They took me to a point (the school gates) where I too used my brain to achieve and get to uni.

Never once have I felt like the world owed me a free living but to go out there and earn what you want.....

Just a shame there are generations coming through now that just think "dont worry bout it someone else will do/sort/pay/organise it for you!" :angry:

I have only read a few post's within this thread so I dont know what's been said...

I have always said I want to earn more than my age. Obviously by the time im 60 I may not be on 65k a year but its good to be optamistic.

Im on nearly double my age now so It's not sounding to rediculous

an excellent point.

well you are right and I have an ipod too but it's one thing to recognise that we are in this system and another to say that it's right and good .
And please don't start on the undeserving poor argument. there are some people who will take advantage of the system and there are those who could claim benefits and don't but the victorian workhouse and all the misery that entailed is the logical outcome of a system that is so concerned not to waste a penny that it loses sight of common humanity.
I also benefitted from a good home life and an education and a brain that enabled me to do ok. But I hope that I havn't forgotten that there are plenty who don't have those advantages and until we can devise a system that offers equality of opportunity to every child then we have to recognise there will be people who will lose out and we as a society have a duty to help them as best we can

eastern european workers get lower wages than we do so capitalism exports your job to there. chinese workers earn even less so the eastern europeans will be next in line for job exports. The only people who don't lose out are the Nissan(or whoever) shareholders and CEO's.
And I don't know what the answer is but I guess it's move to china and accept the wages that they pay there or starve according to capitalism

The only people I owe anything to are my parents, I don't owe anything to society in general in moral terms. I pay for the goods and services I use. And neither does society owe me anything.

However, I would still choose to pay taxes to help those who really can't help themselves.

your parents did not exist in a vacuum, they were helped by all the other people around them ie the higher society. or were they so well off they could pay for the whole cost of your education, did they organise and pay for the training of your teachers? did they pay privately for all your health care? did they have a private army to defend them? did they only travel on private roads and have their own sewers?
you benefitted from the society around you and that means you have a moral duty to help the next generation, and they in turn have a duty to help you if you fall sick or get injured. And you don't pay for even a fraction of the services you use. you are not even aware of most of them as long as they keep operating.