oasis

you're so funny andrew

I dunno you seem to express a deep rooted hatred of me.

ps. yid army

oh my g-d !!!!!!!!

wern't you the one the other week sproutin the shite about the world being created in 7 days was infact over umpteen billion years per day or somthing ?



stones in glass houses j-e

the words I repeated pre-date science (as we know it).... I didn't twist anything.

But the comment i made was tongue in cheek as its something the scientific community repeatedly accuses the scientific religious community of.

listen i once when i was a little kid i come across a dead bird i must have been about three or somthing like that, then i had no comprehension of death religion or otherwise , it had an aweful wound and aske my mum why and she said it must have been killed by somthing and i felt sorrow for this little bird so much that i made my mum carry it home so we could bury it , i knew that that bird wasn't ment to die like that , that it was wrong

i cant explain where it came from but it wasn't my mother else she would have had the same reaction as me , as i grew older and found out the severity of murder i felt the same reaction as seeing that little bird but with more understanding of whats happend

thats quite a religious mindset Psych, i too share your belief... but some scientists wouldn't.

They'd tell you that by the age of 3 you'd already been subject to enough soceity dirven stimuli to instill a basic sense of contemporary values... in which you'd feel sorry for the dead and when combined with mans instinctive protective reactions to witnessing physical suffering... you'd feel very uncomfortable with what you'd experienced.

of course they do ,,, and thats why over the years religious leaders have to continually re-interprate the aincient written word to accomidate new scientific evidence

Religious leaders may have differing views but th Tanakh stays constant.

I can only speak as a jew, the traditionas and rituals may of changed over the years - but our text has stayed steady.

i didn't say the text has changed ----- i said the religious interpretation of the text has

the text is the interpretation... al the different views are wrote down in the talmud.

so your telling me that thousands of years ago the were sayin

right lads! the world right ! it was made over millions of years right! but !! for a giggle and just to confuse them twats on nucastle clubbers an that right , well write in this booky thingy that the big man want's us to write that it was seven days ok!
im sure they'll realise we acctually ment thousands of millions of years

I believe they were a little more articulate... they were saying that at the beginning of time all matter was condensed into something the size of a mustard seed from which everything expanded.

They were saying that 6 days were not the same length of time as 6 earth days, I dont know how deep their understanding of time was (it would have to be something I explored) but they understood that time varied at different part of la'olam (the universe)... a day on earth is not the same as a day on mars.

They new of gravity and that the earth was spherical & not flat.

Only christians have read the Torah litterally, we had the instruction manual; the Talmud.

Or did religious laws come about as a formalisation of systems that had to be in place to allow for humankind to start to live in larger communities than their small familial and tribal origins?

so your telling me they had the power of thought to figure out the spacetime continum (sp) but not that stoning a man for collecting wood cos his family were cold is wrong c'mon

That wasnt my point, I wanted to draw his attention to the fact he'd inherrited many of his morals (whether they were of religious or non-religious origin) and that they maybe weren't something we're born with... However, the egg was on my chin as he provided a very religious answer

I do think you ask an insightful and highly plausible question, Judaism was by no means the first religion; religions predate our written record so there is no way of knowing how they first came about... However many of them seem to stem from one mother g-ddess which is echoed throughout many ancient societies regardless of their size.

While its arguable that religion has been used as a control/moral mechanism in the past, to suggest this is the reason it came into existence possibly goes against the hsitorical record?

But by todays standard those civilisations you speak of were immoral, of course the morality of todays society has been heavily influenced by Judaic values so we accept its traditions as righteous; while we find paedophilia and murder barbaric.

Something as simple as burning our dead in the street seems quite alien and wrong, but that's not to say it is.... As a consequence of the evolution of the west we're simply more comfortable with Jewish values.

You confuse morality, with modern values... they are not one and the same, ancient hindu civilisations were very moral; but they are not the same modern values that we all judge each other by.

You seem to speak of morality as if it is a constant incapable of change?

how fucking dare you insult me like that , i feel i must report this comment as it deeply offends me :evil: :evil:

ii think enviromental health might have somthin to say about it though

Hmmmmmm...
Clearly my post has sparked a massive debate..

Oops

Give it up now.. different views different opinions.
Who really gives a fuck.

Joe you're almost as bad as Melt spouting the same thing again and again